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The roof on your house is probably one of the last things that you think about. Until it leaks, gets damaged, or wears out. Last October a freak hailstorm happened on my birthday which severely damaged a large number of roofs in the Phoenix area. So much so that insurance companies sent damage response teams here to get repairs underway as quickly as possible. A number of my clients got affected and I recommend only one roofing company. Collum Roofing.
Before I continue, a quick note about contracting in Arizona. Being a Right to Work state, there is no requirement to have your employees actually proficient in the trade they are being paid for. Contractors here hire on a per job basis and pays ‘piecework rates’, which is a set amount for any particular job. There is nothing wrong with this if you are good at what you do, but the downside is finding yourself part of a crew whose tools still have the price stickers on them, contractors who supply cheap materials, and projects run by accountants rather than folks who care about quality. Hourly workers are like pink monkeys here. Crews get hired off of street corners and are together long enough to get the job done before needing to find another job. Even skilled tradesmen get this treatment. Keep this in mind when you look for contractors for your house.
In looking for a contractor in Arizona, the standard License, Bonding, and Insurance questions should be asked, but more important is asking how long the employees have been with the company, as the better companies have stable work forces, who are treated fairly and just do a better job.
Recently I managed a project requiring re-roofing, repair and painting. First the setup.
The front.
The design of this roof with the gables and the lunacy of the entryway is a rant for another time. Note on the right side of this photo the blotches on the metal drip edge. When this roof was applied, the original roofer used 1” galvanized drip edge and the painter did not prime the metal, which would have required another step and would have resulted in a better job. The trim had been repainted once since construction.
One of the first things I did after making the shingle selection and deciding on a standard pre-finished brown drip edge was to computer color match the new trim paint color to the drip edge. This adds to the finish which you will see soon.
The Rear
One of the oddest bits was the back side of the roof having three layers of shingles. This is unusual as this is the north facing side of the roof and is not as exposed to damage like the south sides of roofs especially in Arizona.
One other interesting item is that there is no metal drip edge. More on that shortly.
Last is the rear patio.
Re-roofing consists of tearing off the old roof, down to the decking. This includes the shingles, underlayment, old drip edge, vent caps, and or lifting or removing HVAC units. Anything less is bullshit and you will be sorry. Maybe not tomorrow, but a lot sooner than a world class job.
This gets the roofer to the point that a complete damage assessment can be made. There are always surprises when you get the roof torn off. In the case of this project, Rodney from Collum and I had a good idea going in what was necessary. Having worked with Collum on other projects, the Roof Repair Project, Artroom Expansion, we have a great working relationship.
One of the first things the roofers did was to tear off the rear patio so I could replace the fascia and decking while they were tearing off the rest of the roof. This allowed us to minimize the time that the roof was exposed. Roofing in Arizona in January has two significant drawbacks. One is that it is our winter rainy season, the other is cold temperature making shingles stiff.
World Class and Second Class
As our project was going on, the house next door was also getting re-roofed, by somebody else. I emphasized that as you will see in a moment. I am providing an illustration of a standard roof detail.
It is important to note that after the tear off, and any repair, the base sheet on a shingle roof is a felt underlayment that extends to the edge of the roof, and gets covered with the metal drip edge. This provides the first layer of protection for your house. The eaves and fascia’s take the brunt of punishment in any roofing project. Neglecting this is a recipe for disaster later on. It is not economical to save drip edge for reuse, nor is it a good practice in a quality roof job. The same goes for the other sheet metal items like vent caps.
The diagram above illustrates the order of a quality roof job. On top of the drip edge is the starter course, which is a solid shingle without granules. It extends beyond the drip edge to keep water that much farther from your exposed wood. Also note that we are using a 2” drip edge which completely covers the 1×2” wood drip edge.
With the shingles it looks like this. This is what a world class job looks like.
This is next door.
Not only did they not completely strip the roof, they left the old drip edge and starter course, and just shingled over it. You can tell this by the paint color as well as the over paint on the bottom of the shingles.
The house next door also has a patio. This is their roofers idea of a complete job.
Here again they left the old drip edge, did not remove the old vent material and it looks like they didn’t even parge the shingles where the roof meets the patio fascia.
Here is how it is done right. Not only is there new underlayment, drip edge and fascia,(details are here) there is also counter flashing to the edge of the roof to avoid the dry rot which created the problem with the old fascia. The counter flashing gives the water a place to exit the roof.
Here is our re-roof in progress. Note the new sheetmetal vents, clean work area and not visible is the fact that the shingles extend behind the gable and not just up to it. (this is one of those PITA areas) Also they are using air nailers and not staples. This is a significant difference, that could consume an entire posting, (nails work better than staples) but for the sake of brevity trust me on this.
One of the other details that set a world class job apart is the details. This is the finish next door.
Note that they reused the old fittings and caps. Actually they never reset them.
Here is our job. New covers, properly set and painted to match. This is not an extra, this is how they do it.
The last detail to demonstrate why I use and recommend Collum is the front entry.
This is the entry. One of the worst parts of this design is that most of the water that hits the front of the roof gets funneled down here.
Here is one of the inside corners.
The elements have taken their toll.
Here is the finish detail. After replacing some of the sheathing, repairing the trims and fascia, the roofers extended the starter course below and underneath the corner, shingled and wrapped the shingle over the edge and wrapped it beneath the gable end.
This is the finished project.
The paint helped but the roof is the star of the show. No more roof worries for years.
So if you are anywhere in the Phoenix area and need roofing, Collum Roofing is who I use and highly recommend. Their phone number is (602) 437-1184. Or you can request a quote online. Tell them the remodgeek sent ya.
Due to October’s Hailstorm, the roofing industry in Arizona has been busy. Insurance companies have been opting to replace the shingle roofs rather than trying to repair them as the damage has been severe. Part of a quality roofing companies work is to warranty their work. To do this, they need to have a solid surface to attach their materials. In a tear off, defects may show up that require replacement of sheathing, fascia and or trim. This will affect the final cost of repairs. Structural repairs are not usually part of a roofers job.A recent project I did as a residential project manager illustrates this.
Patio covers are a common addition to Arizona houses, and are made from light gauge steel to wood framing. This is a typical wood framed patio cover.
Because of the construction type and slope, this cover was roofed with roll roofing as the slope is too gradual to support shingles. Note that the fascia boards exhibit “dry rot” across the face as well along the side where it meets the house. Improper roofing and flashing allowed water to pond and seep into the fascia damaging it as well as the roof sheathing. This cannot be roofed without being repaired.
Investigation
Here is a closer view of the right side damage.
You can see where the corner has collapsed on the left side. On the right side the damage is more subtle but equally bad. The problem here is that there was no flashing installed under the original shingle roof where it meets the patio fascia. This is probably ignorance on the part of the guy who did this.
Here is the underside where somebody attempted to patch the problem rather than corrected it.
Once the tear off was complete this is what we found. A much more involved area than was seen from below.
Looking at the other side we find an ‘interesting’ repair. On the surface someone strapped the corner with sheet metal.
Underneath they blocked it.
In the center of the patio we saw on the surface of the fascia more dry rot.
Underneath we saw this.
Once the deck was exposed there was more damage then shown.
Repair
We start by replacing the fascia all around. This is a shot of our problem corner.
The front pieces are in place, and it is time to insert the end rafter. The brown piece attached to the underside sticking out is acting as a third hand as I place the end fascia board.
Here is a detail shot of the inside.
The outside blocking was removed to get the fascia in place, which I fastened to the original roof with 3” deck screws. The 2×4” block inside supports the transition between the two roof planes.
In sheathing the deck I used plywood clips as shown.
Because the cover was framed at 24” centers with 1/2” plywood, clips are necessary to provide the support for the dead and live loads of this cover. Clips are a PITA, but are part of doing a good job.
A brief interlude regarding flat roofs.
A lot of flat roofing is done with standard roll roofing, which when applied correctly functions well. Unfortunately this is not the case in Arizona. This project illustrates this in spades. We will replace this with Torch Applied Roll Roofing. Below is a diagram of a typical construction detail and the roofing.
The major point of a roof is to keep water out of your house . Regardless of the roofing style – hip, gable, flat, etc. the carpentry is the same. Rafters, fascia, sheathing, and or wood drip edges. The diagram below illustrates the preferred method of getting ready to roof.
The Torch Applied Roll Roofing system is different in a couple details. There is a base sheet, that is fiberglass rather than felt. The fiberglass sheet is nailed to the sheathing in case years down the road the roof needs replacement, and also acts as a fire stop for the torch application of the roll roofing.
It is important to note in almost all asphalt roofing systems(shingle, roll), the base sheet(roofing felt) is covered with the metal drip edge and counter flashings were appropriate. This ties down the base sheet at the perimeter of the roof and provides a handy guide for the roofers in establishing the overhang when applying the shingles, etc. Trying to save them is an exercise in futility and foolishness and is only done by bad roofers. You cannot get a quality job this way.
This is one of those deals where you may think you are getting a deal, but trust me, you are not.
The Torch applied roll roofing is heated with a torch and rolled onto the fiberglass base sheet where it bonds to it forming a waterproof roof giving you years of use. Highly Recommended.
Here is the almost finished fascia. On top of the 2×6” fascia we nailed a 1×2” which is called a drip edge/batten which brings the elevation flat to the top edge of the plywood. In this photo, the roof side is loose to allow the roofer to install the counter flashing which was not done in the original build and will prevent the rotting problem which led to this repair.
Here is our problem corner ready for roofing.
I mentioned counter flashing earlier. Here is a photo of it in action.
Note that it extends all the way down to the edge of the roof giving the water a clear path and not creating an area to rot the fascia which is one of the things that started this project.
And who are these roofing wizards? Collum Roofing.
While waiting for things on current projects here are a few noteworthy projects happening elsewhere.
Three Acres has a great posting on Applying Garage Floor Epoxy. It is a great posting in explaining every step of the process.
The DIY Diva is moving right along. Here is a posting on her framing and blocking for cabinets and running various cables. Using spray foam and fiberglass insulation to seal walls. This is a neat idea that I will stick in my back pocket for the next building/framing project. Fiberglass is nice insulation but is real hard to get complete sealing with.
One Project Closer has a posting on a neat trick for fixing soffits when installing new cabinets without removing or replacing the old ones.
Todd at Home Construction and Improvement has a good overview of Basement Insulation for those of you who have basements. My feeling is a basement is a well you try to keep dry.
In the category of foam roofing is the Arizona Roofer with some great things and advice about roofing especially foam roofs. A great posting on working with your insurance company on repairs.
Meanwhile I am gathering info on solar collectors, batteries, inverters and the rest of the things to install solar for electricity and hot water.
The majority of the ongoing toxic drywall cases have involved home builders and wholesale suppliers. On smaller projects and remodeling, Lowes is a great source of material. Lowes and the orange stores use local wholesalers to stock their shelves. Therein lies the tale of Lowes getting involved in this.
Lowes stepped up, acknowledging that some stores has sold it, and offered reparations. As the extent of the problems became more apparent, Lowes has upped it’s settlement offer.
Lowe’s Companies Inc. has dramatically increased the amount of money [1] it is prepared to offer customers whose health or homes were harmed by defective drywall they bought from its stores. Those customers are now eligible for up to $100,000 in cash, instead of the maximum $4,500 in cash and gift cards that was previously agreed upon in a class action lawsuit that is being negotiated in a Georgia state court.
The rest of the article is here; Lowe’s Amends Settlement to Get Drywall Victims More Money
Will this be enough to make folks whole? I don’t know as I am not dismantling these houses and testing them. But one thing is sure, Lowes is stepping up, and that is a good thing for DIY’ers.
I love foam roofs! It was the second thing that I did when I moved into the casa. Two reasons is insulation and sound proofing. Having a flat roof limits the amount of insulation that you can install between the joists. Closed cell foam has an R value of 6.25 per inch and the typical roof is 2” thick. This translates into reduced energy costs for heating and cooling. Living underneath one of the airport landing patterns for Sky Harbor makes its sound deadening qualities a winner. However….
Hail takes a toll. Were it just surface problems, usually re-coating would solve things. With the hail storm we had my roof looks more like the surface of the moon and will need to be replaced. Because of the depth of the impacts and the subsequent rain, it is not repairable.
The shingle roofs got hammered as well.
 
The plastic gutters I put up got smashed. They were more of an experiment in plastic laughing at the Arizona sun. The sun won and the hailstorm drove in the final strokes. Note to self: No plastic rain gutters down here.
If that wasn’t quite enough, my A/C unit got clocked.
The fins should be a dark grey showing you the edges, rather than smashed flat. My A/C guy will have to figure out if this can be fixed.
I waited to call the adjuster as my damage though bad was minor compared some folks, friends and clients. Trashed roofs, broken windows, soaked furniture, glass embedded carpets. Not to mention the cars that look like moonscapes with the dents from the hail.
This will be an interesting time as this is repaired. Photos and commentary to come.
The latest chapter in the Toxic Drywall Saga has Knauf Plasterboard Tianjin, the major producer of the toxic drywall is stepping up to repair up to 300 homes as part of a settlement with a number of owners. Or at least the guy without a chair when this tune stopped. This is so not close to being over….
“The homes will be repaired according to a protocol developed by U.S. District Court Judge Eldon E. Fallon, who is presiding over the litigation in New Orleans. It requires, among other things, that all the drywall be removed, along with the wiring, the air-conditioning system and other components – a procedure that will effectively gut the interiors of the houses. One of the program’s goals is to settle on a cost for the work. Homeowners who have paid to fix their homes themselves have often spent more than $100,000.”
Source:Pro Publica
Also contributing to the repair settlement is Interior Exterior Building Supply(one of the drywall suppliers in LA.), and several insurance carriers.
This is an interesting development, but being the glass half empty sort of guy that I am, I see a few issues.
First, we have the demo work ripping down the drywall, removing the electrical, including the A/C, and even though it is not specifically mentioned, any copper plumbing and or underfloor heating systems. These procedures will remediate the apparent damage, but I haven’t seen any mention of testing the frames for secondary absorption of the out-gassing byproducts in wood framing and/or removal(which would basically require a bulldozer and a lot more dumpsters to just knock the houses down and starting over) or some type of sealant that could trap any toxic vapors in the wood. Also no mentioned but of concern is the cabinetry, especially cabinets whose boxes are particleboard. Carpet is an issue as well. Not to mention your major appliances.
Second, the settlement is going to do 30 homes initially to establish a ‘cost basis’ for repair. Here is where it will get interesting. Insurance companies do not make money by paying claims. By establishing a ‘cost basis’, by taking the cost of a series of repairs and adding them up, and dividing by the number of repairs, they hope to assign a dollar value that they will want to pay for repairs. If your house falls inside this ‘cost basis’, great. But if your house does not, it will get ugly.
Let me take a moment to outline a couple of things that insurance companies do. I will use auto body repairs to demonstrate. When you have an accident and your car is towed to the bodyshop, two things happen. The bodyshop uses a software program to prepare an estimate of the damage and the repair costs. The bodyshop and the insurance company both use the same software. Almost. An Adjuster who is the insurance company representative, checks the estimate, negotiates with the shop and signs off on the repair so that your car can be fixed.
There are differences based on the version used by each party. In the case of the body shop being a Direct Repair Facility, the estimate is created by an insurance company representative, and the car is delivered to the shop for repair. The difference between an Independent shop and a DRP is that in exchange for priority in work assignments, any number of concessions are made, usually being in the labor rate paid for repairs.
Here is where the plot thickens. The estimate is solely based on visual inspection without tear down. Tear down happens when the bodyshop removes the bent and damaged sheetmetal and other parts to determine how extensive the damage is, and what will be required to bring the car back to pre-accident condition. In other words if your car has a dent in the door, chances are that fixing it will solve the claim. In the case of a front end collision where the hood is jammed shut and the doors are jammed closed, the true cost of repairs cannot be measured. Teardown creates another estimate called the Supplement. Note that your car has not been repaired yet. This is the insurance dance.
The Supplement is added to the Estimate to gauge the total repair cost. Now in the case of car repair, the insurance company uses a percentage of ACV,(Actual Cash Value, which is an aggregate number of actual sale prices of the same vehicle nationwide) as the threshold for deciding whether or not to repair the vehicle. It doesn’t matter that you first got laid in this car, or your first born was conceived therein, some choices are made in providing you insurance, and one of them is that the insurance company gets a large say in how far they will go. Say for argument, 80% of ACV is the Total Loss theshold. If the repair estimate and supplement cost is above this dollar amount, the insurance company can choose not to repair the car,(It’s in your Policy) declaring it a Total Loss, writing you a check for the ACV, take your title, and going home. If you are still making payments, and the value of your car is not great, you will be without wheels and still have a car payment.
In the case of auto repair to save money the insurance company will require the shop to look for LKQ parts. LKQ stands for Like,Kind and Quality. In the case of brand new cars, in most cases this means Manufacturer Factory Parts. Which are spendy. Aftermarket Parts (produced by independent companies. most notably sheetmetal) are classified as LKQ, although there has been years of debate over finish, quality and suitability. In the case of older cars, this is where auto salvage/wrecking yards come into play. If you need a front end for your 2000 whatever, the factory is only required by law to produce and stock parts for 7 years. An salvage yard buys cars and dismantles and or cuts them up and can sell a front end from another 2000 whatever that was bought because it was hit in the rear and the front end is good. Recycling, Save the planet, etc.
Now if you are bummed out thinking about this and how it relates to toxic drywall houses, I have one more little thing to add. Betterment. Betterment is the difference between the value of what was damaged and the value of it’s replacement. The best example of this are tires. Your tires have 30K miles on them and two need to be replaced to repair your ride. You got tires that were good for 60k miles. So you have used 50% of their value. The insurance company buys you two new tires, which cost a little more than your originals. This difference in price between the new tires and the 50% value of your old tires is called a betterment and this cost is passed on to you. The insurance company to the bodyshop will be light by the betterment amount, and this is over and above your deductible. You will need to come up with this money to get your car.
To Recap: Remember these terms: Estimate, Supplement, ACV, Total Loss, LKQ, Betterment.
Third, the concept of making you whole, or returning you to a semblance of life before the drywall from hell turned your life into shit, is the end game of every homeowner affected, and should be the top priority of everybody involved in making the necessary repairs.
I can think of a lot of things that can go wrong with the repair rather than replacement of these homes. Like property values, or resale.
Here is an interesting posting on Building Crash Testing
Mostly in Arizona we have climate, occasionally we get weather. Yesterday we got hail. Lasted 2 minutes.
This is in my front yard just after it stopped.
This is the driveway.
This is a closeup of some of it. Most were the size of peas with a sprinkling of missiles the size of quarters.
Scared the crap out of the dogs. Freaked me out too.
I am normally pretty good on ladders.
Gravity Sucks. Falling from ladders sucks.
You can’t see the rose thorns in this photo, but they are there. Took two weeks for one to come up far enough to dig it out.
The knot on my shin is about the size of a tangerine.
Of course it had to be on one of the highest points of the house.
Gravity Sucks/
Here are a few remodeling posts from around the net.
Hardwood Floor Installation at One Project Closer
An Excellent description of how to install hardwood flooring! Follow the links for the complete story.
The DIY Diva shows the Gas Station she is living in while she demos, remodels, and adds to her house.
A Concord Carpenter does a stunning cabinet installation
Over at Charles and Hudson is post about eliminating soffits in your kitchen.
Enjoy.
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